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Prepress Forum Forum Index -> Computer To Plate

Need Help Installing a Trendsetter 800 II Quantum
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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Need Help Installing a Trendsetter 800 II Quantum

Hello,

Can someone please help me install a Used Trendsetter 800 II Quantum that I bought. I have some experience on the older 3244 machines but not on the 800 II. I need email support and am willing to pay for it.

PLEASE CAN SOME ONE HELP ME GET THIS MACHINE UP AND RUNNING.

Thanks,

Andy

Post Jun 19, 2007 2:51 pm 
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fixit



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Northeast US


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where are you located?
Is it an MPE or MCE style machine?
How far did you get?
Did you install the head?
Do you have the TIFF downloader (Print Console)?

Post Jun 20, 2007 4:51 pm 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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where are you located?
The machine is in India.
Is it an MPE or MCE style machine?
Not sure. How can I check.
How far did you get? Did you install the head?
An ex-creo engineer has fit the head and can get the machine to stand by. When he trys to run the Service Shell. The shell runs but he says he unable to access the features, so he cant proceed. He also admits it was 5 yrs ago that he left Creo and hence is not very sure if he knows what he is doing on the shell is correct.
Do you have the TIFF downloader (Print Console)?
Yes. I have Brisque 4 and also have the Print Console with Downloader

If you want you can email me on andy_eqpt@yahoo.com

Post Jun 21, 2007 2:29 am 
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fixit



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Northeast US


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So, the ex-Creo guy should be able to look at the electronics cabinet, and see if it is running on a MPE (Master Processor Electronics) board, or and MCE Board. The MPE style was used for YEARS, and could communicate with a simple Hyperterminal program (free in Windows). The MCE style is much simplified, which is good, but you basically need Service Shell, from Creo, to do all the basic things. Commands are different a bit too. For instance, changes you make to any parameters USED to have to be saved to stay in the system after rebooting. With MCE machines, changes are direct, and automatically changed. The biggest problem, though, is that Creo locked down the Service Shell program with passwords, that change automatically. The latest "feature" is to ALSO have a USB dongle to access the Service Shell. This feature INSURES that only Creo service people can access Service Shell. Thinking of buying a "lost" dongle? Even they aren't worth much, as they ALSO expire every 30 days.
For that reason, I prefer the MPE machines.
Also, some customers I know with newer creo machines don't even have software anymore. Creo (Kodak, ok) doesn't leave software to back up your own machine or recover from a computer failure.
So I guess the best recommendation, if it is an MCE machine, is that you'll have to have Kodak come in and install the machine. Unless you can find a third party that works with the MCE machines.

Post Jun 21, 2007 6:56 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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So, the ex-Creo guy should be able to look at the electronics cabinet, and see if it is running on a MPE (Master Processor Electronics) board, or and MCE Board. The MPE style was used for YEARS, and could communicate with a simple Hyperterminal program (free in Windows).

I will have him check this. Also, is there a way to know this from the machine number or the model.

The MCE style is much simplified, which is good, but you basically need Service Shell, from Creo, to do all the basic things. Commands are different a bit too. For instance, changes you make to any parameters USED to have to be saved to stay in the system after rebooting. With MCE machines, changes are direct, and automatically changed. The biggest problem, though, is that Creo locked down the Service Shell program with passwords, that change automatically. The latest "feature" is to ALSO have a USB dongle to access the Service Shell. This feature INSURES that only Creo service people can access Service Shell. Thinking of buying a "lost" dongle? Even they aren't worth much, as they ALSO expire every 30 days.
For that reason, I prefer the MPE machines.

Like I said the service shell we have does not have a dongle and runs, does not ask for any password BUT my engineer says he is unable to access the features. He is not sure if he is doing it wrongly or the software has a problem.
Also, some customers I know with newer creo machines don't even have software anymore. Creo (Kodak, ok) doesn't leave software to back up your own machine or recover from a computer failure.
So I guess the best recommendation, if it is an MCE machine, is that you'll have to have Kodak come in and install the machine. Unless you can find a third party that works with the MCE machines.
Unfortunately, Kodak is not willing to support the machine and we are unable to find anyone who knows much about MCE machine.

Post Jun 21, 2007 8:00 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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Hello,

We opened the left side cover and saw three boards. One board says " Power Dist Board", One boards says "Carraige Amplifier", Cant seem to see a name on the 3rd board. Cant seem to find any board that says MCE/MCP.....do see cable with labels with prefix "MCE".

How do I go forward from here.

Andy

Post Jun 21, 2007 8:56 am 
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fixit



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Northeast US


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well, does Print Console recognize the machine and boot up? The first few minutes, the PrintConsole reboots the Trendsetter and if everything was connected properly, it should be able to operate and run a plate. The biggest thing during install is installing the head and checking focus. The focus is set to it's "midpoint" and feedback comes out of the terminal, and you "set" the focus on a plate by actually moving the whole head on the carriage, so that the "average" focus on a typical plate happens at about the "resting" area of the active focuser. The focus mechanism is a voice coil. Imagine a wofer on a stereo speaker, but instead of a paper cone, you have a focusing lens. Such a system would have a range of motion, with the middle point requiring no current, and so that would be the most desirable point to have the head rest for the typical plate. Normally, if the Trendsetter was running, and this were done before, the micropositioner screw would theoretically be in the same position, and it should be close enough to try. Another drawback though is that you would be "stuck" with whatever media the previous user had. Each brand of plate has to be "set up" on a Trendsetter, things like power and reflectivity are different for each type of plate, and you need to "get in" to the Trendsetter to access this stuff and make changes.
Again, I have no one to suggest in the India market. Sorry. Perhaps the only chance Ican think of is to contact TeamEPS in Kentucky. They can do a connection over the internet, and at least try to get into your trendsetter. Perhaps they can work with your guy in India as their hands and eyes on site. Send an email to: jack_p@teameps.com and see what they can do for you.

Post Jun 21, 2007 9:32 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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The email is bouncing. Can you recheck or give me another lead.

Post Jun 21, 2007 9:54 am 
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davidovi



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 9


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MCE vs MPE. Well, its just about creo wiling to get te customer going nowhere but themselves.
They did this movement because access to the trendsetters was so easy to anyone, even the customers.
Also ,from what I have heard, enginners from creo in certain countries earned some money themselves by upgrading machines to Fast or changing Spectrums to Trendseter Spectrums and so on, and this is wasn't good for Creo.
This way, even the customers can check the actual laser hours, third party engineers can carryout the service, upgrade the speed of the machine, etc.
So its always preferabily to buy MPE machines, because of this things.
Another radical solution would be transform those damn MCE machine to an MPE one.
This should be trivial for a good creo engineer with the right parts IMO.
Also the problem accessing the MCE from ServiceShell can be caused because you're using an older version (no passwords here). The one I know works for sure its 2.6. but its passwords protected and expired recently, so further steps needs to be done on this Wink

Post Jun 23, 2007 4:12 am 
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fixit



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Northeast US


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sorry!

I asked around to some people who might be able to help, and I think they have already heard about "an install in India that isn't going well". So I have nothing to offer. That machine looks like a hot potato.
I would really try to find a local Kodak tech and offer big bucks and anonimity to get the job done. We work with some kodak people, and we go through a lot of thought to make sure their identity is never compromised. For instance, never use their Kodak email address (obviously!) . You sure wouldn't want to compromise the job of someone that is trying to help you.
I'm curious as to why Kodak will not support this machine? Any reason? In the USA, they WILL come out and do an on demand service call. It might be costly, but they WILL do it. Especially if you intend to use Kodak plates. If you will be using ENOUGH plates, a smart salesman would find a way to bend some rules, right?

Post Jun 23, 2007 10:49 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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MCE to MPE. This idea did cross my mind but I am not sure what all would be need to be changed and who would be the right person for this job and what it would cost.

Post Jun 30, 2007 9:15 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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Fixit, I have been emailing to a lot of the companies reselling equipment so I would not be surprised if people knew of a installation that needs some help. Honestly, I really would appreciate if you can help me hook up with any techie and I will ensure that they identity is not compromised ever.

Post Jun 30, 2007 9:17 am 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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Fixit, I have been emailing to a lot of the companies reselling equipment so I would not be surprised if people knew of a installation that needs some help. Honestly, I really would appreciate if you can help me hook up with any techie and I will ensure that they identity is not compromised ever.

Post Jun 30, 2007 9:18 am 
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Tharma



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 22
Location: UNITED KINGDOM


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quote:
Originally posted by Andy Eqpt Corp:
Fixit, I have been emailing to a lot of the companies reselling equipment so I would not be surprised if people knew of a installation that needs some help. Honestly, I really would appreciate if you can help me hook up with any techie and I will ensure that they identity is not compromised ever.


Hi Andy

I could try find a person in the region to help you . I have attended many similar projects. Please send an email to : g.rasntha@googlemail.com with all information about the TS800 , Brisque and loaction and contact person

Post Jul 06, 2007 5:30 am 
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LaserAsh
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Dear Andy,

The lesson you learn from such an excercise is never touch things as old as a Trendsetter. That machine for all you know is 10 years old. There are much better machines with faster speed and better features available at cheaper prices. The workflow is old and pray to God you don't burn a hole in your pocket, with all the service cost. The moment you get it going, sell it off for whatever you get, and buy a new one. If you cannot get it going sell the spares and make some money.

Regards,
LaserAsh

Post Jul 13, 2007 6:46 am 
 
joepostscript
Site Admin


Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 1735
Location: Columbus, Ohio


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Laser repair on Creo Trendsetter 800

Depending on the life of the laser these devices can be virtually worth noting in resale. The laser is the biggest problem with these devices. Allot of hype about square spot and all that to give it a good reputation. However, with this laser, so expensive and a life expectancy of about 5,000 hours. If a used deevice already has that much hours it is worth very little because of the expense of failure and likelihood of laser failure.

Wasn't the device bought from a used dealer? call them, didn't they give any warranty of performance for the device? Where are you geographically? If it's in the thread, I think I missed that.
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Post Jul 22, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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Hello,

We have made some progress. We have been able to expose plates from the Print Console but are unable to establish connection with the Brisque.

Our CTP Model - Creo Trendsetter Spectrum 800 II Quantum Print console version - 3.5.0.41 Service shell - 2.4 SP1 Wokflow - Brisque 6F1 version - software version 4.1 with Brisqe agent for comunication between CTP & Brisque for job output. Brisque has one TSP board & one rotation board.
Tredsetter CTP communiaction cable is with SCSI ( U/wd ) Connector

The problem I am now encountering is.

As per the print console details our CTP is a MCE model machine. As per the documentation given, MCE CTP models work with TSP card only and SCSI card is not required. Please note our Brisque has TSP card only and no SCSI card is installed. The CTP machine has no cable for TSP connectivity but it has cable for SCSI cable Connecting port so we are not able to connect the CTP with Brisque.

MPE Model Machines : MPE machine models support brisque with TSP baord & SCSI card. CTP is connected through SCSI cable with brisque agent, so it is a more flexible system.

So now i have two questions

1. Whether our machine is MCE or MPE as we have a SCSI cable with CTP but no SCSI card. we need some infor mation on the same as SCSI cable is creating doubts but print console shows the machine as MCE machine.

2. Can we install a SCSI card in a MCE machine for communication with brisque agent, if yes we need the Card details and need help to get the same arranged with software drivers.

Thanks

Andy.

Post Nov 15, 2007 1:44 pm 
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davidovi



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 9


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Weird situation what youre describing here. Anyway, the most common used SCSI cards in MPE trendsetters are Adaptec 2944 UW/HV.
Other brands can also be used, but they need to be HV


Last edited by davidovi on Nov 24, 2007 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total

Post Nov 15, 2007 6:05 pm 
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davidovi



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 9


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btw, maybe you can output tiffb from brisque and send it to Princonsole via Tiff downloader.

Post Nov 15, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Andy Eqpt Corp



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 11


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I dont have a TIFF downloader on the Brisque. Where can I get one from.

Post Nov 24, 2007 2:46 am 
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Need Help Installing a Trendsetter 800 II Quantum